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KP44 contemplations
Weaponeer Forums : KP44 SMG

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  Mr.JD

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Posted: May 15 2008 at 3:37pm | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

Likely going to be buying one of these in the next few months.  I've built my fare share of arms, so this should not be a problem.  I was wondering what type of FCG you guys were using.  I've seen Suomi's with AR15 firing pins, which is likely a viable option for the Kp.  But are you using a AR fcg, a modified AK FCG, or something else?

If I build one of these it will be a 16" rifle. For those of you who have went or are thinking about this route, how did you get past the US vs. foreign parts count?  I ask because I am unsure if the folding stock counts as one single part, or multiple parts.
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  rocco1911

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Posted: May 15 2008 at 5:28pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

I have built one its up & running I used a Rem 870 Triggergroup there are 3 parts right there + the reciever 1 part the Trunnion 1 part & your barrel extension 1 part your right were you need to be compliance wise the 870 trigger group with its heavy hammer & spring puts the needed extra resistance on the bolt so there are no out of battery issues like with the wiselight version shooting mil-surp ammo.
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  rocco1911

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Posted: May 15 2008 at 5:51pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

I tryed looking for an edit feature so I could revise the parts listing up top but I can't edit my posts whats up with that ????? well the FCG counts as 4 parts triggerhousing, hammer, disconnector, trigger thats 4 parts off the bady list. so a welded on extension to the barrel would be way over the required amount for r922  
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: May 16 2008 at 2:04pm | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

Did you extend the barrel shroud, or leave it the original length?

I have been debating on the barrel extension Vs. using a 16" barrel blank also.  Is your set up fairly solid?
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  uofmguy68

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Posted: May 16 2008 at 3:19pm | IP Logged Quote uofmguy68

what are the FCG avalible for this build?? so far i have seen the 870 FCG used in a pps43
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: May 17 2008 at 2:22am | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

Any self contained FCG could work.   As mentioned here, a shotgun FCG was used.  Just browsing over gunbroker, it seems that a number of these are available in the $25-~50 range which is certainly in the hunt for a budget build.  I wager you could find a local gun show and pick up something far cheaper that would work in the end.

Basically, its just a matter of knowing what you are building and where things need to be positioned,,,, before you build it. :)

So: anyone out there that has pictures of their kits, their builds, or just want to talk about a build, I dare say A good thread is needed to do so.

Question:  I know the firing pin in the original suomi was removable, is the same true for the KP44 bolt?
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: May 17 2008 at 2:46am | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

cant edit, here is some great info that you might find useful.
http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuilder/index.php?topic=76.0
http://www.prexis.com/sten/homebuilder/index.php?topic=258.0
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  rocco1911

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Posted: June 12 2008 at 1:59pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

Yes the original Firepin is removable & you would then Drill through both ends meeting @ the center also remove the little stub that holds the Fixed FP in thats part of the extractor. On mine the stock is Pinned & welded in the closed Position so its in Pistol configuration I have pictures of it Posted on Gunco & Weapons Guild under subgun conversions works great only had feeding issues on the last round in the drum & first round on the stick mag.
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: June 12 2008 at 11:04pm | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

do you have a full build thread anywhere?
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  Semtex

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Posted: June 29 2008 at 8:53pm | IP Logged Quote Semtex

rocco1911 wrote:
I have built one its up & running I used a Rem 870 Triggergroup there are 3 parts right there + the reciever 1 part the Trunnion 1 part & your barrel extension 1 part your right were you need to be compliance wise the 870 trigger group with its heavy hammer & spring puts the needed extra resistance on the bolt so there are no out of battery issues like with the wiselight version shooting mil-surp ammo.


I bought one of the Wise Lite KP-44's.  I hope you don't mind some questions/comments since you've built one yourself:

On mine, the lower feed lip is not ground off.  I have never built a semi-auto, but my understanding was that the lower feed lip had to be removed from semi-auto conversions of open-bolt SMG's.  Is that true?

I have had an out-of-battery incident with mine.  I noticed afterwards that the bolt does not always close and it seems that a stronger hammer spring would help to solve that problem.

Lastly, I get very unusual markings on my chambered rounds:



The rounds on either end were chambered and failed-to-fire.  The one second from the left was chambered but not fired.  The one second from the right was not chambered and is pictured for reference.  I posted this on another forum and the thought was that the chamber is too short and the shell case 'bottoms out' and then buckles.

I sent the KP-44 pistol back to the manufacturer after seeing the unusual markings on the FTF rounds but they sent it back saying everything was normal.  The FTF rate was low, only those two rounds out of a drum and stick mag (107 rounds) but I had sent it back mainly to address the unusual 'crimping' of the shell case. 

My plan is to send it back.  However, on the other forum the issue of the lower feed lip came up.  If that shouldn't be there, then I'll ask for a refund.  Thank you in advance for any input.


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  rocco1911

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Posted: June 29 2008 at 10:02pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

No worry the feed lips are ok this has been an ongoing issue and ATF has said to effect that if it was converted to closed bolt & a completely different Triggercontrol group used the feed lips could remain as the wiselite gun is ATF approved this concurs with there letter to him the letter is posted on the weapons guild site.


As for the bulged caseings thats from the round smashing the rim of the barrel before entering the chamber its caused by the magazine alignment these KP44 guns can be like Stens you need to get a lot of mags & match one to the gun thats why the drums were serial numbered to the gun same as the PPSH41 drums there mated to the gun when manufactured. I had to go through a few then matched them to the gun some slight mods like filling & grinding, milling to them to get them just right.


Hope this answers your questions.

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  rocco1911

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Posted: June 29 2008 at 10:05pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

Hey semtex could you show a pic of what wiselite did with there triggergroup I have never seen one of there guns before & was curious what they did & what there bolt looks like?? did you get a pistol or carbine version?
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  Semtex

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Posted: June 30 2008 at 8:22am | IP Logged Quote Semtex

rocco1911 wrote:
Hey semtex could you show a pic of what wiselite did with there triggergroup I have never seen one of there guns before & was curious what they did & what there bolt looks like?? did you get a pistol or carbine version?


Rocco,

Thank you for the answers.  Yes, I will get some pictures up for you.  I bought the pistol version.  I am keeping it at my FFL/SOT that did the transfer pending the whole lower feed lip issue which is OK to have.  When I pick it up I'll get some pictures up.
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  rocco1911

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Posted: June 30 2008 at 1:48pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

Thanks You may want to watch the rounds closely as they exit the mag & enter the Chamber to be sure there not hanging up on the feed ramp if so a polish on them may also correct this issue as well as the magazine problem.
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  Semtex

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Posted: June 30 2008 at 10:25pm | IP Logged Quote Semtex

rocco1911 wrote:
Thanks You may want to watch the rounds closely as they exit the mag & enter the Chamber to be sure there not hanging up on the feed ramp if so a polish on them may also correct this issue as well as the magazine problem.


It's definitely not a feed ramp or magazine problem.  If I manually insert a round into the chamber, and let the bolt fly forward, the markings are left on the casing.  It's definitely a short chamber issue and the case is 'bottoming' out.  I really wish it was just a magazine problem but I have many drums and stick mags and before I tried manually feeding the cartridge I had tried a bunch of mags and drums and still had the same problem.
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: December 06 2008 at 2:40pm | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

hey, what did you guys used for a barrel extension and where did you find it?  
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  Mr.JD

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Posted: March 03 2009 at 4:22am | IP Logged Quote Mr.JD

just thought I would update this...

I bought a kp44 kit, receiver blank, trunnion, etc.  I have done the vast majority of the work on it at this point.  I have fitted the barrel to the receiver, extended the barrel to 16", built an extended shroud which covers the barrel and looks somewhat factory.  I have started milling the bolt and setting up the lower for an AR15 fcg... but I am at a stop right now due to the unavailability of AR15 FCG parts.  I plan to buy what I need this month at a gun show so I can continue this build.  I am thinking about incorporating a wood front handguard, but I dunno at this point.  We will see how I feel when I get back into the build.
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  mikey_mick

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Posted: March 03 2009 at 11:33am | IP Logged Quote mikey_mick

I saw that kp44 kits are up to $130 at mgs.  Not too long ago they where only $70.  I guess they must be running out or something.
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  rocco1911

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Posted: March 03 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged Quote rocco1911

Mr.JD wrote:
just thought I would update this...

I bought a kp44 kit, receiver blank, trunnion, etc.  I have done the vast majority of the work on it at this point.  I have fitted the barrel to the receiver, extended the barrel to 16", built an extended shroud which covers the barrel and looks somewhat factory.  I have started milling the bolt and setting up the lower for an AR15 fcg... but I am at a stop right now due to the unavailability of AR15 FCG parts.  I plan to buy what I need this month at a gun show so I can continue this build.  I am thinking about incorporating a wood front handguard, but I dunno at this point.  We will see how I feel when I get back into the build.

 

Are you aware of the fact that the AR FCG will sit well back behind the point that the hammer would need to impact the back of the bolt ? You would have to do some fancy magic to get it to work

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  gundoctor

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Posted: March 03 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged Quote gundoctor

Work on the feedramp, chamber entry contour, and magazine position.   The  rounds are not entering the chamber correctly.  Also make sure the rounds can slide up the bolt face easily. 

If you have multiple magazines try a different one.
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